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Post by Brett on Aug 22, 2009 21:39:29 GMT -8
This is the big year for Sam; his junior season. He wants to go out of state (we're in Missouri) and he definitely wants to play. I asked if he would rather play or be on the Texas roster, his favorite/dream school, and he said play. Well if playing is at the top of his list, I would suggest you be as realistic as possible about his options. Where do you think he has a chance of playing?
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Post by wrstdude on Aug 23, 2009 5:54:13 GMT -8
This is the big year for Sam; his junior season. He wants to go out of state (we're in Missouri) and he definitely wants to play. I asked if he would rather play or be on the Texas roster, his favorite/dream school, and he said play. Well if playing is at the top of his list, I would suggest you be as realistic as possible about his options. Where do you think he has a chance of playing? I think he's capable of playing D1 baseball. Maybe not at a top program, but his skill set is there and has the athletic ability.
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Post by HYP on Aug 23, 2009 6:28:20 GMT -8
Well if playing is at the top of his list, I would suggest you be as realistic as possible about his options. Where do you think he has a chance of playing? I think he's capable of playing D1 baseball. Maybe not at a top program, but his skill set is there and has the athletic ability. I would consider if he could play right a way at a D1. Also, D1 baseball programs only have 11 scholarships a year and some of the smaller D1 schools don't get to use them all. This is also my sons junior year. We don't beleive he is a D1 talent. He has the skills but not the size and athleticism. We are thinking D3 or NAIA. Concordia of Irvine is are main focus. We think he can go there and contribute as a freshman.
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Post by teacherman on Aug 23, 2009 7:01:04 GMT -8
First and foremost.....95% (my somewhat educated guess) of all D1 athletes are 'known' by the coaches and scouting services and if you aren't recruited you aren't one.
Next is D2. Probably 85% (my somewhat educated guess) of all D2 athletes are 'known' by the coaches and scouting services and if you aren't recruited you aren't one.
That leaves D3 and NAIA.
My advice regarding D3 recruiting, since that's all I've been through, with soccer and baseball, three times, is to remember what the coach's main job is.
And that job is to increase enrollment. He probably does want to have a good program. He probably does want to win. And he surely recruits the best athletes he can. He surely has some pride in his baseball knowledge and program.
BUT......he will also recruit anyone and everyone.....almost regardless of their ability......and give them the impression they can play at his school.....when he knows better.
Because his main job is to recruit students. Not baseball players. Students. The university needs income. Income comes from tuition paying students. Some will play. Most will not. Throw enough mud, some of it will stick.
Once they have you there, the transfer options are minimal. And they know this. It is a numbers game to them. And it's also a trap. And they play the game well. You need to play the game equally well to find the best option for your son/daughter.
Obviously, you can transfer any time you want. And hopefully you find another school.....likely to be another D3.....that you can play at. Occasionally a player will find a D2. Or even a D1. I believe that is part of Jeff Albert's (setpro guinea pig, now a hitting coach in the Cards minor league system) story. But those are the exceptions.
The real point is the tuition game they play.
EXAMPLE: They say it costs $30,000/yr to go to school there, and somehow everyone who enrolls as a freshman pays $15,000 or less. They offer numerous scholarships, supposedly dependant on your grades.
But here is the kicker......how many sophomores get the scholarships that D3's offer to their freshman? Very very few. If any. Why give to a soph, from whom they will only get 3 years of tuition, when they can trap another freshman and get four years?
So, to transfer, to another D3, it will cost you $30,000/yr. If you stay and keep your grades up.....and.....unfortunately......either give up your sport because you have no chance at playing time.....or stick it out because you love the comraderie with no chance of playing......you can keep your scholarship and graduate. That is what they are betting on.
Good news is you get a quality education. And I guess that is the most important thing. However, you can get that quality education anywhere. And you chose this school because you wanted to play your sport also.....and because you were told you could play there.
Don't get me wrong.....competition is a good thing. There may be someone at your position that is better than you. That was Brandon's story. So be it. But, if it isn't you, you will quickly see and hear, as other students share their recruitment and past success stories, about the number of players told they could play there that actually had no chance.
It is a trap that they set.....and IMO.....intentionally. Underneath any business is a marketing strategy. D3 schools, while giving quality educations (I'm not challenging that) are masters at deceit and deception in the recruiting game.
And.....on another day.....I'll talk about how the 'known to the administators but not known to the parents/student' future tuition increases over the course of their stay at the D3, are part of the trap.....and the scholarship money is not increased to keep up.
If I were you I would not accept a $15,000/yr scholarship to a $30,000/yr institution. But I may accept a 50% scholarship.
Did I mention that books will run you at or near $1000/semester these days? 5 books....textbooks....$25ea right? Maybe $50 for an expensive one....right. Nope $200ea.
Pahlease.
When they get you there.....you are f'd.
What was Bobby Knight's advice to the girl about to be raped......"You have no control over the situation, you might as well lay back and enjoy it".
Nothing better fits the parents college experience.
Colleges like to give you this 'warm and fuzzy feeling' about the 'experience' your son or daughter will experience at their institution......and then cut your throat and stab your back financially every chance they get.
And of all things.....try to keep a Dec graduating Sr, out of commencement ceremonies in May.
As if f'ing you out of your money wasn't enough.
I have a small NAIA experience. Brad and Britney were both offered nearly full ride scholarships (they had to work study for about $1000 credit each year....cafeteria, registration desk, class room cleaning, help desks, tutoring, computer lab etc etc) based on grades and their playing ability, to Lindenwood University in St. Charles, MO....our home. But both wanted to go away to school.
DAMN IT. ;D
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Post by teacherman on Aug 23, 2009 7:12:52 GMT -8
Did I mention the coach will almost ALWAYS recruit over you next year if the opportunity arises?
Let's say you go to D3 U and start at catcher......and have a decent season....one from which you will improve upon because you know you fit and you're getting better......and then you show up for your soph fall semester and find a freshman catcher has been recruited.
Again, competition is fine. May the fit survive. But did that catcher get recruited because they needed a catcher?......or because the coaches main job is to recruit students......any and all of them.
Some of the mud sticks.
I thought we needed pitchers? I thought we clearly needed a ss? I thought......I thought.......ahhhhh......that's what I get for thinking......about the wrong goal......you see.....the university's goal trumps the coaches and yours.
How much better is the team even if the new catcher is better.....but you still have a hole at ss?.....pitcher?
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Post by teacherman on Aug 23, 2009 7:26:49 GMT -8
Unless you have great unquestionable information, my advice is to play the percentages.
If you aren't being recruited D1 and D2, where athletic scholarships are granted, you don't fit.
And, by great unquestionable information, I mean you have a son/daughter that has played at the highest amateur levels and succeeded....and succeeded by a good margin.....and aren't being recruited because of size.......but you know 'the size of the dog in the fight' in your kid. Something only you and the kid and a few who have seen em play over a period of time knows.
The college coach isn't likely to know that.
But even then.....it is a risk.
I have always been one to go where I can play.
Doesn't make it right. Just the perspective of another.
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Post by Brett on Aug 23, 2009 8:42:46 GMT -8
Great posts Rich...a great piece of perspective for you guys. Now to this: I think he's capable of playing D1 baseball. Maybe not at a top program, but his skill set is there and has the athletic ability. Okay, so now he is going into his junior year, so tell me this, did he play varsity last year? If so, how did he fare? What position/s does he play? What is his height and weight? Are you getting him out to any showcases? Has he received any invites to any? Has he received any letters from schools yet?
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Post by cosmo34 on Aug 23, 2009 9:07:25 GMT -8
Fact. We had 77 guys in the Fall last year. 77.
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Post by wrstdude on Aug 23, 2009 9:21:15 GMT -8
Great posts Rich...a great piece of perspective for you guys. Now to this: I think he's capable of playing D1 baseball. Maybe not at a top program, but his skill set is there and has the athletic ability. Okay, so now he is going into his junior year, so tell me this, did he play varsity last year? If so, how did he fare? What position/s does he play? What is his height and weight? Are you getting him out to any showcases? Has he received any invites to any? Has he received any letters from schools yet? Didn't play Varsity. Not because he wasn't capable, but the coach is "senior/junior friendly". Head varsity coach kept 18 on the roster. All seniors and juniors. Quite a few that were mediocre at best. Has been hurting his program for many years due to this. He didn't hit well at the JV level. Again not because he isn't capable, just started off slow and struggled with timing IMO and didn't really get going. Hit well this summer against better competition around the country. Pitches, Catches and plays 3b above average. Extremely good defensive catcher. Had the best pitching stats this summer on his team. Limited time at 3b this year due to more time catching and pitching. Average OF. 5'11" 190 Bench-205 Squat-365 Clean-215 3.85 gpa Been to a couple showcase tournaments, but not to any specific player showcases. Usually schedule conflicts have gotten in the way of attending. He's been invited to TPX Top 96-didn't attend because they were in another tourney. Silver Spikes Showcase (don't know that one very well so info would be good) is actually next weekend that we're talking about going to. He also played in the East Cobb wood bat tourney this summer and played well. Just junk mail information from a few small schools. Don't remember who. Just received a letter from D3 Lake Forest College near Chicago for football. Which brings up our biggest predicament. Football is an option as well. He's the starting Varsity QB this season and his time has been split this year between the baseball and football. I'm not going to make him choose one or the other because he enjoys both, but playing both is hurting his development in both. If that makes sense. Missing film on Saturday morning for a showcase causes me to worry a bit...
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Post by Brett on Aug 23, 2009 10:36:02 GMT -8
Didn't play Varsity. Not because he wasn't capable, but the coach is "senior/junior friendly". Head varsity coach kept 18 on the roster. All seniors and juniors. Quite a few that were mediocre at best. Has been hurting his program for many years due to this. Not trying to start anything here, but I want to be totally honest with you. When you make a quote like the quote above, then follow it up with this: ...do you feel the varsity coach was wrong for not having your son on JV? I say things like this not to put down your son's ability, because I have never seen him play, but you have said he has the ability to play D-I ball. Do you realize who plays D-I ball, and I mean actually gets playing time? Some of the best players in his league will never play D-I ball. Is he one of, if not the top player in his league? Now if your son is struggling to hit in JV ball, what makes you think he can play at the highest level of college ball? You have to be realistic about these things or you will end up very disappointed. Sounds good there...good for him with the gpa...keep it up. As for showcases and summer ball, keep playing and trying to get out there. The bottom line, especially with football, is that the best showcases are during the summer, and usually do not interfere with football. There have been many, many good players who played both sports and gone on to D-I ball, but again, you have to be realistic. The junior year is very important so hopefully he does well.
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Post by wrstdude on Aug 23, 2009 11:14:27 GMT -8
Didn't play Varsity. Not because he wasn't capable, but the coach is "senior/junior friendly". Head varsity coach kept 18 on the roster. All seniors and juniors. Quite a few that were mediocre at best. Has been hurting his program for many years due to this. Not trying to start anything here, but I want to be totally honest with you. When you make a quote like the quote above, then follow it up with this: ...do you feel the varsity coach was wrong for not having your son on JV? I say things like this not to put down your son's ability, because I have never seen him play, but you have said he has the ability to play D-I ball. Do you realize who plays D-I ball, and I mean actually gets playing time? Some of the best players in his league will never play D-I ball. Is he one of, if not the top player in his league? Now if your son is struggling to hit in JV ball, what makes you think he can play at the highest level of college ball? You have to be realistic about these things or you will end up very disappointed. Sounds good there...good for him with the gpa...keep it up. As for showcases and summer ball, keep playing and trying to get out there. The bottom line, especially with football, is that the best showcases are during the summer, and usually do not interfere with football. There have been many, many good players who played both sports and gone on to D-I ball, but again, you have to be realistic. The junior year is very important so hopefully he does well. I understand you're trying to help and I greatly appreciate it. Yes he truly deserved to be on Varsity. He didn't "struggle" against JV pitching. Just started the year off slow and never got in a rhythm. You've been around the game long enough to know how easy it is to start off the year in a funk. Sam had one this season. If you notice I mentioned how his summer season at the plate was more typical of his ability. Played well in the East Cobb Wood bat tourney which features some of the best teams across the country. Every weekend he was out of town (Ohio, Indiana, Georgia) playing against top quality teams much better than what he saw during the school season. Consistently seeing mid to upper 80s pitching during the summer and seeing it only once during the school season. He went 2/3 that day. Yes, I'm aware who plays D1. He is one of the best players in his summer organization and shares the top spot with one other player in his class at school. Again, I mentioned I don't expect him to play at Georgia or UNC or any other of the elite top flight programs. But there's a lot of schools out there, and I feel he's got enough ability to play at one of the many other less prestigious D1 schools. That's where we are. Which one of the non-elites would be a good fit? What level are they at and will he be able to play there? Again, thanks for you help and thoughts. I really appreciate it. FYI he's my brother by the way.
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Post by Brett on Aug 24, 2009 7:26:13 GMT -8
l. Yes, I'm aware who plays D1. He is one of the best players in his summer organization and shares the top spot with one other player in his class at school. Again, I mentioned I don't expect him to play at Georgia or UNC or any other of the elite top flight programs. But there's a lot of schools out there, and I feel he's got enough ability to play at one of the many other less prestigious D1 schools. That's where we are. Which one of the non-elites would be a good fit? What level are they at and will he be able to play there? IME it is not about your brother picking a school per se, it is about the school picking him. You can set your sights on a school/s that you feel is a perfect fit, but if they have no interest in Sam, then what? There are so many options if his number one priority is to play. Even then there are different levels of what you want. Do you want to play at a D-I your freshman year? Do you want to play at a D-I at some point in your career? Would you rather play four years at a D-II, D-III, or NAIA school or play sparingly at a D-I school? If he wants to play at a D-I no matter what, then JUCO is always a valid option. I know he has great grades from what you posted, so this may not be as glamorous as going to a 4-year, but it may be the best means to play at one. Here is a question on the heels of his 'I would rather play than be on the Texas roster': Say a D-II or NAIA school came knocking as said that they will give Sam a scholarship and a chance to play right away. Then a D-I says they like him and will pay for his books and probably redshirt him his freshman year with no guarantees for the rest of his career. What would he want to do? Again, I have never seen him play so I cannot honestly tell you if he is a D-I talent or not. I am trying to help you guys through this as best I can.
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Post by wrstdude on Aug 24, 2009 10:02:49 GMT -8
l. Yes, I'm aware who plays D1. He is one of the best players in his summer organization and shares the top spot with one other player in his class at school. Again, I mentioned I don't expect him to play at Georgia or UNC or any other of the elite top flight programs. But there's a lot of schools out there, and I feel he's got enough ability to play at one of the many other less prestigious D1 schools. That's where we are. Which one of the non-elites would be a good fit? What level are they at and will he be able to play there? Good point. I agree. He's got to present himself almost like a sales pitch. Another good thought. Got to have a backup plan for the backup plan. His summer organization has a college list that he's supposed put together which is kind of why I'm really interested in this right now.
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Post by stealth on Aug 24, 2009 10:59:39 GMT -8
Mini Stealth started high school today. I told him to tell the stud hitter (for sure D1 player) that he looks forward to protecting him in the lineup this season. LOL
I am looking forward to watching these kids and tracking them in their quest to play college ball. I like what Brett says - there are some great options out there besides D1 but most people don't bother to look for them. Good luck to Sam, HYP junior and the others.
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Post by Brett on Aug 27, 2009 17:31:58 GMT -8
His organizational directors (Matt Whiteside-ex MLB and Scott Cooper-ex MLB) have told him he can play D-I. We just need to figure out where and what suits him best. Again, thanks for all your thoughts. Dude, My whole point is that you have to prioritize. I cannot stress enough the importance of knowing what you are looking for in helping your brother out. There are hundreds of big leaguers who didn't go to Miami, Texas, or LSU. If he chooses to go to a smaller school, whether it ends up being a D I, II, III, or NAIA, I'm sure he will be fine. Maybe he chooses a school for its academics over athletics, or vise versa. IMO either way is fine as long as he is comfortable with it. I just want him to be aware of all the aspects of the decision.
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