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Post by powertoallfields on Feb 3, 2012 12:08:45 GMT -8
With the discussion in the hitting thread of "elite" hitters, I've had a great time putting together an All-time 30 man roster. Would anyone else want to join the conversation and make up their own?
Well, here's mine and I can justify every one of them. ;D
OF- Mays, Cobb, Bonds, Williams, Ott, Ruth, Musial, Henderson
C- Bench, Dickey, Berra
3B- Boggs, Chipper Jones
SS- Trammel, Larkin
2B- Morgan, Eddie Collins
1B/DH- Pujols, Gehrig, Foxx
SP- Nolan Ryan, Sandy Kofax, Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, Randy Johnson, Bob Gibson
RP- Rivera, Gossage, Percival, Fingers
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Post by mudvnine on Feb 3, 2012 12:32:08 GMT -8
You forgot Wes Parker at 1B.....I'm just saying. ;D  No justification, was just my hero going up back in the late 60's, early 70's. I still wear #28 on all of my jerseys. Only 45 errors in 10380 attempts, for a .996 fielding percentage over 9 MLB seasons at 1B, garnering 6 consecutive GG seasons along the way (1967-1972)......need I say more?  |
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Post by Brett on Feb 3, 2012 15:57:51 GMT -8
With the discussion in the hitting thread of "elite" hitters, I've had a great time putting together an All-time 30 man roster. Would anyone else want to join the conversation and make up their own? Well, here's mine and I can justify every one of them. ;D OF- Mays, Cobb, Bonds, Williams, Ott, Ruth, Musial, Henderson C- Bench, Dickey, Berra 3B- Boggs, Chipper Jones SS- Trammel, Larkin 2B- Morgan, Eddie Collins 1B/DH- Pujols, Gehrig, Foxx SP- Nolan Ryan, Sandy Kofax, Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, Randy Johnson, Bob Gibson RP- Rivera, Gossage, Percival, Fingers I'll put mine together after I tear apart yours ;D Again, hard to argue with any of the OF choices. At 3B, Boggs ahead of Schmidt is a joke. Schmidt was one of the best defensively (Brooks Robinson being numero uno) along with being a middle of the order masher. Boggs highest MVP finish was 4th...Schmidt was an MVP at 30, 31, and 36, and had 10 Gold gloves to Boggs' 2. Schmidt created 3,101 runs in his career in 8352 ABs (.37 runs per at bat) Boggs created 2,527 runs in his career in 9180 ABs (.28 runs per at bat) Gotta have Piazza in there over Dickey... Trammell and Larkin at SS? Both good players, but putting them ahead of Jeter, Yount, A Rod, Banks, and the like is wrong. No Rogers Hornsby at Second Base? Only a .358 career hitter with a 1.010 OPS...Eddie Collins couldn't hold Hornsby's jock strap! 1B/DH would be the same for me. Nolan Ryan would be nowhere near this list for me...too many losses and walks...elite stuff, never an elite pitcher. Troy Percival?!?!  Seriously? |
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Post by Brett on Feb 3, 2012 16:33:34 GMT -8
Here's my team, taking into account not just elite hitters, but all around players:
OF- Mays, Cobb, Bonds, Williams, Ruth, Musial, Henderson
C- Bench, Piazza, Berra
3B- Schmidt, Chipper Jones
SS- Jeter, Honus Wagner
2B- Hornsby
1B/DH- Pujols, Gehrig, Foxx
UTL- Rose
SP- Koufax, Maddux, Seaver, Randy Johnson, Bob Gibson, Walter Johnson
RP- Rivera, Gossage, Fingers, Eckersley, Sutter
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Post by powertoallfields on Feb 3, 2012 19:16:50 GMT -8
With the discussion in the hitting thread of "elite" hitters, I've had a great time putting together an All-time 30 man roster. Would anyone else want to join the conversation and make up their own? Well, here's mine and I can justify every one of them. ;D OF- Mays, Cobb, Bonds, Williams, Ott, Ruth, Musial, Henderson C- Bench, Dickey, Berra 3B- Boggs, Chipper Jones SS- Trammel, Larkin 2B- Morgan, Eddie Collins 1B/DH- Pujols, Gehrig, Foxx SP- Nolan Ryan, Sandy Kofax, Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, Randy Johnson, Bob Gibson RP- Rivera, Gossage, Percival, Fingers I'll put mine together after I tear apart yours ;D Again, hard to argue with any of the OF choices. At 3B, Boggs ahead of Schmidt is a joke. Schmidt was one of the best defensively (Brooks Robinson being numero uno) along with being a middle of the order masher. Boggs highest MVP finish was 4th...Schmidt was an MVP at 30, 31, and 36, and had 10 Gold gloves to Boggs' 2. Schmidt created 3,101 runs in his career in 8352 ABs (.37 runs per at bat) Boggs created 2,527 runs in his career in 9180 ABs (.28 runs per at bat) Gotta have Piazza in there over Dickey... Trammell and Larkin at SS? Both good players, but putting them ahead of Jeter, Yount, A Rod, Banks, and the like is wrong. No Rogers Hornsby at Second Base? Only a .358 career hitter with a 1.010 OPS...Eddie Collins couldn't hold Hornsby's jock strap! 1B/DH would be the same for me. Nolan Ryan would be nowhere near this list for me...too many losses and walks...elite stuff, never an elite pitcher. Troy Percival?!?! Seriously? Okay! 1st, I'll tear apart your tearing apart of my "team" roster. Then, I'll tear apart your roster, lol! Okay, the theme of my team is getting on base, not striking out, scoring runs with efficient use of my line-up offensively. Defensively, the plan is to put the best people who can execute my offensive plan and still give me the best defense possible. My business plan is to get the best bang for the buck. I'm not a Yankee fan. ;D Now, for specifics. Boggs instead of Schmidt. Boggs would be my 2 hole hitter. I want him to get on base or at least move Cobb to 3rd because he's already going to be on 2nd with a double or a SB if he's not already on 3rd with a 3B. If he is, then a grounder scores him. He had a .962 fielding %, Schmidt .955. Boggs only struck out 745 times in 9180 ABs and had a .415 OBP, Schmidt on the other hand struck out 1883 times in 8352 ABs and had a .380 OBP. Boggs will be helping to create LOTS of runs with this line-up.  Again, the theme of the team is important in my selection at SS. Trammel had a fielding % of .977, Larkin .975, ARod .977, Yount .964, Jeter .976. All pretty close. Wagner had a .940! Hell, he had 676 errors, so defensively, he's out. Offensively, Trammel 874 SOs in 8288 ABs with a .352 OBP, Larkin 817 SOs in 7937 ABs with a .371 OBP, ARod 1916 SOs in 9199 ABs with a .386 OBP, Yount 1350 SOs in 11,008 ABs with a .342 OBP, Jeter 1653 SOs in 9707 ABs with a .383 OBP. So, While the defense is close and all but Yount and Trammel have a very similar OBP, the SO totals and salaries made my decision easy here. I don't need more guys to clear the table on this team, I need table setters. Okay, 2B. Hornsby had a .965 fielding %, Collins .970, Morgan .981. Offensively, Hornsby had 679 SOs (in a time when there weren't many) in 8173 ABs with an OBP of .434 (scary good) but only 135 SBs, Collins only 286 SOs in 9949 ABs with a .424 OBP (also scary) but, with 745 SBs, Morgan 1015 SOs in 9277 ABs with a .392 OBP and 689 SBs. I'm not saying Hornsby wasn't great, he was, but he didn't fit my team make-up. ;D Being a GM is fun, lol! Oh....jock strap accounted for. Catcher. Dickey had a .988 fielding % and only 78 pass balls in 1708 games, Piazza .989 and 103 pass balls in 1629 games...uh...the Catchers job is to "catch" the ball, lol! Offensively, Dickey 289 SOs in 6300 ABs with a .382 OBP, Piazza had 1113 SOs in 6911 ABs with a .377 OBP. Too many SOs for Piazza, but in his defense, he was probably called on to do that for that team. Nolan Ryan, had 5714 Ks, an opponent batting avg. of .204 (both marks record holders) and an era 3.19 in 5386 innings with a WHIP of 1.25. Yes, he had lots of BBs, but how many of those balls did the umpire actually see???  How many pass balls? How many of his losses were because his team couldn't score any runs? My team will score plenty for him and my Catcher is a WALL, lol! Now, the case for Troy Percival, lol! He had a .188 opponent batting avg. with a 1.11 WHIP. My Pitchers are going DEEP into the game, so I only need a few key outs here and there and I got him cheap! ;D ;D Compare him to Eckersley 3.50 ERA .246 opponent avg. and 1.16 WHIP. Then, there's Sutter 2.83 ERA, .230 opponent avg. and 1.14 WHIP, very good numbers, but he was one of the first big pay for just a few innings (closer title) and he wouldn't fit in my budget. Now, all I need is a Manager and for someone to write a computer program to see if my team would beat your team!!! Where can I get a good Mgr. ?? I had a great time doing this, even if it was just for me! I love your site Brett! |
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Post by marklaker on Feb 4, 2012 18:44:34 GMT -8
Trammell and Larkin at SS? Both good players, but putting them ahead of Jeter, Yount, A Rod, Banks, and the like is wrong. I can't fathom why Larkin is dismissed so easily in this exercise. Maybe because he played on a mediocore team in a small market and was beset with injuries at the tail end of his career? For grins let's compare his stats with Jeter: Offensively H: Jeter 3.6 PA, Larkin 3.9 PA 2B: Jeter 22.7 PA, Larkin 20.5 PA 3B: Jeter 171.6 PA, Larkin 119.2 PA HR: Jeter 46.5 PA, Larkin 45.7 PA K: Jeter 6.7 PA, Larkin 11.1 PA BB: Jeter 11.2 PA, Larkin 9.6 PA TB: Jeter 2.5 PA, Larkin 2.6 PA Jeter has 9 years of 100+ K's and almost twice as many strikeouts to walks. Larkin had 70+ K's only twice and more career walks than strikeouts. Defensively FLD%: Jeter .976, Larkin .975 RF: Jeter 4.10, Larkin 4.62 Larkin's RF is better than the league average and Jeter's is lower. I'm not condemning your choice of Jeter, just your implication that Larkin isn't in his class. AROD's stats are rediculously good, Banks is from another era and so hard to measure, and Yount's offensive numbers as a SS aren't comparable. |
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Post by marklaker on Feb 4, 2012 22:21:48 GMT -8
Trammell and Larkin at SS? Both good players, but putting them ahead of Jeter, Yount, A Rod, Banks, and the like is wrong. I can't fathom why Larkin is dismissed so easily in this exercise. Maybe because he played on a mediocore team in a small market and was beset with injuries at the tail end of his career? For grins let's compare his stats with Jeter: Offensively H: Jeter 3.6 PA, Larkin 3.9 PA 2B: Jeter 22.7 PA, Larkin 20.5 PA 3B: Jeter 171.6 PA, Larkin 119.2 PA HR: Jeter 46.5 PA, Larkin 45.7 PA K: Jeter 6.7 PA, Larkin 11.1 PA BB: Jeter 11.2 PA, Larkin 9.6 PA TB: Jeter 2.5 PA, Larkin 2.6 PA Jeter has 9 years of 100+ K's and almost twice as many strikeouts to walks. Larkin had 70+ K's only twice and more career walks than strikeouts. Defensively FLD%: Jeter .976, Larkin .975 RF: Jeter 4.10, Larkin 4.62 Larkin's RF is better than the league average and Jeter's is lower. I'm not condemning your choice of Jeter, just your implication that Larkin isn't in his class. AROD's stats are rediculously good, Banks is from another era and so hard to measure, and Yount's offensive numbers as a SS aren't comparable. Forgot baserunning ;D SB: Jeter 29.4 PA, Larkin 23.9 PA SB%: Jeter 73%, Larkin 80% |
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Seriously?
How many pass balls? How many of his losses were because his team couldn't score any runs? My team will score plenty for him and my Catcher is a WALL, lol!