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Post by Brett on May 7, 2009 8:40:56 GMT -8
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Post by cosmo34 on May 7, 2009 13:33:45 GMT -8
Not steroids and no positive test. Not as big a deal as some have already made it out to be.
Obviously he deserved to be suspended, but it's not like he was shooting up 600m/g of Test E.
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Post by Brett on May 7, 2009 15:33:16 GMT -8
Not steroids and no positive test. Yes, but the drug he was suspended for (hCG) is used to restart the body's natural testosterone production as it comes off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO. See above. I couldn't disagree more. It's a HUGE deal. |
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Post by billnye on May 7, 2009 15:51:31 GMT -8
Say it ain't so Manny.
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Post by cosmo34 on May 7, 2009 18:39:15 GMT -8
I guess I take him at his word.
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Post by Brett on May 7, 2009 19:29:49 GMT -8
I guess I take him at his word. Why can we take any of these guys at their word? A-Rod to Katie Couric: I never used Palmeiro to Congress: I never have used steroids, period. Clemens: I never used And so on and so on... It's guilty until proven innocent because, well, nobody has proven otherwise in there situations. |
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Post by cosmo34 on May 7, 2009 21:51:22 GMT -8
Said he got caught, said he was sorry, and reportedly is devastated by it.
Everybody has forgiven Giambi, so why not Manny.
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Post by Brett on May 8, 2009 4:39:43 GMT -8
Said he got caught, said he was sorry, and reportedly is devastated by it. Everybody has forgiven Giambi, so why not Manny. Of course he should be devastated and sorry...who wouldn't be? For one, Manny has HOF numbers. Giambi does not. People seem to care more about those with HOF numbers (A-Rod, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, now Manny). Do we ever talk about F.P. Santangelo and Bobby Estallela anymore? No. Why? Because they did not have the impact of these guys in the record books or in wins and losses. Giambi admitted that he did steroids. Manny has not. Manny quit on the Red Sox and pushed down a 60-something travel secretary for them last year. Giambi has always been a good teammate. Manny has not. Because he came up with some crap story that he was prescribed something for a 'personal issue' does not give grounds for me to forgive him. Sorry. Trying to hide behind some non-team doctor is weak, especially when it is already known that what he was using is a common drug for guys coming off of a steroid cycle. Just like A-Rod, Manny has not told us the whole story. Whoever advises these guys in these situations is very bad at their job. Half truths only make them look worse. The whole 'Manny being Manny' thing is not cute anymore. He's a great talent, but a fradulent one now. |
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caseyd123
Full Member
Falcon Pride Til I Die
Posts: 193
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Post by caseyd123 on May 8, 2009 6:37:42 GMT -8
Brett, while that was a great post, are you actually surprised? I was in your shoes a couple months ago, I despised MLB and was determined to put baseball in my past. I looked at Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, Jason Giambi, Miguel Tejada as all different versions of the anti-christ. I thought they stained the game and it wasn't worth my time anymore. Then the WBC came around and I got to watch Korea and Japan play, oh what a treat. Baseball played to perfection, dominating the Americans at their own game. The little 160lb asians played better than the big 220 lb Americans (who knows how many on America's team were juicing). Watching these two asian teams play restored my love for the game of baseball and I realized the only way I'll get to watch this game is MLB since I dont live in Japan or Korea. I started to forgive Barry Bonds. I forgave Jason Giambi who is a great guy. All this milk doesn't matter to me anymore. What's the use of worrying about it if there's no control? The war on steroids in MLB is just like the War on Morality that the United States fights everyday: drug prohibition, prostitution illegal, abortion laws, stem cell research. The War of Morality isn't working and in fact leads to worse environments and is in fact, Out of Control of the government and never will be in control. The same situation is in MLB. They cannot possibly control the steroids problem because EVERYONE is fackin doing it. Was I surprised Arod juiced? Absolutely not! Will I be surprised if Pujols gets mentioned in all of this? Heck no! I simply do not care anymore. The league wanted more home runs, they got em. I'm sorry but when you're in the minors and the player who's position you are competing with is juicing, getting that edge over you while you sit in AAA for your entire career, whilst losing out on your chance to make millions... some people, some HUMANS, give in to the temptation. Granted, those who don't should be recognized as true ball players. In fact, the only person in MLB who I will genuinely be sad, disappointed and hurt by a positive test will be Derek Jeter. My idol since I was 6 years old, he embodies everything right about baseball. Being a Yankee fan I have my old favorites: Tino, Paul O'neill, Bernie...none of these guys would surprise, nor sadden me with a later report of them using. Its out of my control, its clearly out of MLBs control so Im not going to worry about it anymore. Those are just my personal sentiments, feel free to disagree....
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Post by Brett on May 9, 2009 22:56:11 GMT -8
Brett, while that was a great post, are you actually surprised? Not at all. I have never been at that point. That's a little extreme IMO. Very good post though Casey...good thoughts. Listen, these guys are not criminals IMO. There are much worse things that a person can do other than taking something they feel will make them perform better. I know how pervasive PED's are in pro ball...trust me. What bothers me is the lack of ownership by guys who get caught. If you own up, say 'Yes, I used, and I felt it gave me an edge,' people would forgive much easier. At least A-Rod admitted to doing steroids; who knows if he timeline was correct but at least he said he did it. With Manny, I think he has been able to hid under the cover of 'Manny being Manny,' especially after he QUIT on his team and repeatedly demonstrated that he was a bad teammate and leader. This is just icing on the cake. It certainly doesn't help that he is a Dodger either  |
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Post by deemax on May 11, 2009 21:42:13 GMT -8
It certainly doesn't help that he is a Dodger either Reminds me of a short story... Steve Sax was a die hard Giants fan growing up in the Sacramento area, and he told me that "I was devastated when the Dodgers drafted me, but once I got there, it was just baseball." Steve Sax is a piece of work, and alot of fun to have a convo with... |
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