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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 8, 2010 6:39:20 GMT -8
Wog Five years ago I targeted you as the type of guy who would go back to Eteamz.com and tell the concerned parents there that you made a terrible mistake listening to the likes of the internets Carpi di Tutti TG and the pseudo scientists like laflippo But no, your son's tendonitis is from weight training. Let me guess. The tendonitis is in his pitching elbow. Now we have the forlorn gamer that wants to take the non specific to baseball easy way American children have gone from first to 6th place in creativity. Nice Job. Kharma As with all these children I wish your son well. the tendonitis is in the pitching elbow YET it seems like you arent satisfied with my explanation of why i feel its not from pitching,,,first of all my son ahs never had pain from pitching UNTIL he started his "strength training " at school and then immediately after school he would run to the health club..at the SAME TIME he has weight lifting happy he was also playingGOLF every day after school..at least 9 holes or range work..no kharma we know that this is an OVER USE INJURY...yet you want to make e team refernces about coach tg and "rail" on the normal pitching delivery..as much as it seems youwant to blame his "normal" picthing style the reality is the abuse started with weightlifting..you state which elbow is it? does a right get tennis elbow in the left arm does a righty golfer get it in his left arm?..he id mention he had some slight discomfort in his left elbow as well but ONLY feels the discomfort when he throws.
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 8, 2010 6:42:55 GMT -8
My nephew just won his regions NFL Punt Pass Kick competition. My nephew attributes his success to Dr Marshall's "weight training" program he has done for the last two years. He's 11. You train for what you want to do. Evidently Wog Jr wants to impress the young chickies. I'll bet he has been successful. Therefore, his training has been a success. I wish I thought of that when I was 16. Best wishes to young Wog for future success. Kharma and there ya go...you are finally doba with this one..not saying that mike marshalls training is the cats meow..but trying to curl 10,000 lbs isnt either..all i could do was warn him,,I cant follow him around to the gym..you can train all you want and get some longevity and strenght by training,,but if you aint got the twitch muscles all the training in the world wont help you..thats why linncecum can bring it with his size and weight,,he hooks it up correctly and has the fast twitch muscles that God gave him
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 8, 2010 6:49:57 GMT -8
World class sprinters run with their legs. Pitchers pitch with their arms. The world is flat crowd has to get rid of the notion of the importance of legs to release velocity. That said I get your point. You are correct we want Wog's son to explode of the mound using his quadriceps muscles not the relatively weak tensor fascia latae muscle he uses now. You guys want kids lifting weights for their legs and you don't even use the muscles that you're strengthening. I believe you do 144 pitches daily in the 120 day program. Many of Marshall's student have told me that their legs got stronger during his program (no way to quantify). Go buy a 16 lb shot put. Have the strongest farmer you know pitch it. Let us know how he does. Then get to work. As we have told Wog for years now and he is now finding out, pitching injuries take years to manifest themselves. Same with Newton Iowa. A failure of leadership in both cases IMO. Wog can blame weight lifting "overuse".. But like most problems we only have to look in the mirror to find the culprit. Unfortunately , the mind set that says you lift weights with your legs to improve pitching performance carries over into more important phases of our lives. As the people in Newton Iowa have found out, there's not much room for error in the global economy. Great people, like Wog's son. Poorly lead. Kharma Kharma kharma as much as i appreciate your concern you gotta knock this BS off..this is not right for you to do..you can say what you want but an injury like this just doesnt happen I gave you the timeline and the reason yet you still want to blame this on normal pitching mechanics.if this were because of pitching mechanics why was there no pain at the end of july when the season was over..NOTHING..then golf weightlifting then pain when throwing? cmon...stop..
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Post by Brett on Nov 8, 2010 15:02:25 GMT -8
A bump in case Wog missed this...
I couldn't agree with Cosmo more on this issue.
Questions for Wog:
Were you in the weightroom with your son to observe how he was lifting?
Would you feel comfortable putting together a weight training program for an adult who has never lifted? Could you supervise and teach them to lift properly?
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 8, 2010 19:14:07 GMT -8
A bump in case Wog missed this... I couldn't agree with Cosmo more on this issue. Questions for Wog: Were you in the weightroom with your son to observe how he was lifting? Would you feel comfortable putting together a weight training program for an adult who has never lifted? Could you supervise and teach them to lift properly? NO and yes...
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 9, 2010 10:13:24 GMT -8
Wog You've always been one of the good guys in the anti science crowd. I have absolutely no doubt your son's elbow problem is from pitching. Your son wanted to look good while at the same time getting stronger for baseball. We both don't know what he was lifting (so how do you know it was overuse) but I have no doubt it was not specific to pitching. Then he went out and pitched with the muscles that have something to do with pitching. Unfortunately they had atrophied. And the beat goes on. We have a new crew in Congress that might MIGHT be able to cut 50b in spending. They conveniently don't let the Wog's out there know the the shortfall is over $1 trillion. But they are going to cut taxes. Another bill that young Wog can look forward to while he rubs his sore elbow. Young Wog will learn to blame the China, the Mexicans, the boogie. With similar results. The traditional pitching mindset. The gift that keeps on giving. Kharma well im glad you have no doubt that its from a pitching injury,,that makes your I love you man whatever that is more credible,,but common sense would state otherwise..season ends litlle polo pitching just fine no pain great season..season over no pain..again season over no pain...ahhh school starts,,strength training EVERYDAY at school..school ends at least 9 holes of golf,,after golf over,, to the healthclub for MORE weightlifting..no remember this is an OVER USE INJURY in spite of what karma wants you to believe,,is there signs of over use yet? I think so....do we know that theres a problem now? NO..he picks up a baseballl throws a few and his arm screams..NOW ,,lets look at COMMON SENSE,,if it were truly from pitching we would have seen discomfort at the end of the season from TOO many pitches or IMPROPER FORM..did we experience that? NO..when did the problem surface? AFTER WEIGHTLIFTING ABUSE on top of GOLF..if it were pitching the PROBLEM would have occured from pitching when pitching..2 plus 2 still equals 4 ,except in washington
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Post by cosmo34 on Nov 9, 2010 15:26:09 GMT -8
Well, that clears it up.
Lifting improperly was the culprit.
Not just solely lifting.
Knew it. Kthxbye.
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 10, 2010 7:15:05 GMT -8
Wog Have you ever found out what kind of lifting he was doing? Tell him to not let his elbows go below his acromial line when lifting? That goes for Cosmo as well Just for fun. Let's say im right. Your son simply went out and pitched with atrophied muscle fibers. His muscles simply barked at him. So you start jim on the 120 day interval resing program and he's the strongest pitcher in town. Now what did you do? Took him to the doctor who has no idea. He probably told you to get an MRI. That will be negative but they'll tell you to go get some physical therapy. How much did all that cost? And the beat goes on. That said, how is your son doing in baseball? Is he going into his junior year? I feel like I know the kid after all these years. Kharma of course the general doctor is going to send him to physical therapy,thats a given. i'm sure it aint cheap either..you could pick up the same exercises on you tube,,icing etc so how worth it is another story.......he's a junior this year and played a key role this summer pitching for varsity ..hes top 4 juniors and seniors combined..i know this injury because i had it myself from playing tennis years ago..the best thing to do is lay off ,,i'm not looking forward to this year quite honestly because of this injury.before this happened i was pretty enthusiastic because he was hitting 83 and he isnt even mature or physically grown yet..he has great stuff too and like any dad was pretty optomistic about playing time and a big role for this year,,now
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 11, 2010 5:38:45 GMT -8
By the way, tennis players, like you were, hurt the lateral side of the elbow. Pitchers generally hurt the medial side of their elbow. Wog Jr hurt the lateral side. You are making way too much out of this. I strongly doubt this was a weigt lifting deal. And it definitely was not "overuse". Kharma so with all the goobleydeegook stuff you just printed you are saying that tennis elbow golfers elbow weightlifters elbow and the one you enjoy the most pitchers elbow is NOT from overuse..so deciphering through this mess after thurough examination of the timeline i told you you number one do not believe it is an over use injury BUT you believe it was from pitching too much over his lifetime? you believe even though there wasnt a bit of pain at the end of last bb season that the tendonitis just happened to show up? EVEN though you dismiss the excessive weight training and golfing daily as NOT OVERUSE..number 2 my sons pain is inside his right elbow the same place I had pain from tennis tennis tennis every night whne i was younger.number 3,,are you saying he should get back to normal soon and that pitching was the culprit? his grip pressure was 64lbs when he started its about 90 now? he goes to therapy by himself so i dont get much feedback,,icing and wearing a strap with a pad on it to keep pressure around the injured area?
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 11, 2010 5:46:54 GMT -8
Wog It really is interesting. Everything we say will happen comes to fruition and we parents still bury our heads in the sand. This "injury" will go away. In traditional terms he'll be good as new this spring. I'm afraid another myth is that these kids are learning life lessons. Do you and your son a favor. Order a 12 lb lead ball and have your son try to pitch it. It's only 12 measly pounds and he's doing "specific" weight lifting drills. It should be easy. Then again, maybe you and your son will learn a life lesson. Kharma what does the bury the head in the sand comment mean specifically? and hopefully with rest he will be good to go this spring even though i was hoping to work with him indoors this winter.maybe he wont even be ready in the spring who knows?? what life lesson should we have learned from tendonitis in the right elbow??
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Post by Brett on Nov 11, 2010 9:11:47 GMT -8
A bump in case Wog missed this... I couldn't agree with Cosmo more on this issue. Questions for Wog: Were you in the weightroom with your son to observe how he was lifting? Would you feel comfortable putting together a weight training program for an adult who has never lifted? Could you supervise and teach them to lift properly? NO and yes... If you weren't there to watch him lift how do you know he hurt himself lifting?
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 11, 2010 10:29:48 GMT -8
If you weren't there to watch him lift how do you know he hurt himself lifting? cmon brett..not you too..did 43 trokes over 9 holes a day do it? probabaly not..did weightlifting 2 times a day do it..? probably and the golfing "gripping" probably didnt help there was never a problem UNTIL weightlifting,,even last year when he ONLY golfed no pain..so baseball only no pain golf only no pain..bring weightlifting into the picture and pain..
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Post by Brett on Nov 11, 2010 16:47:22 GMT -8
If you weren't there to watch him lift how do you know he hurt himself lifting? cmon brett..not you too..did 43 trokes over 9 holes a day do it? probabaly not..did weightlifting 2 times a day do it..? probably and the golfing "gripping" probably didnt help there was never a problem UNTIL weightlifting,,even last year when he ONLY golfed no pain..so baseball only no pain golf only no pain..bring weightlifting into the picture and pain.. Excuse my question if you have already spoken of it, but why was/is he lifting 2 times a day?
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gamer
Full Member
Posts: 134
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Post by gamer on Nov 11, 2010 18:46:39 GMT -8
Well I appreciate this this thrilling argument, however my question hasn't been answered yet; I'm still looking for opinions.
Also Wog,,, I'm not blaming you, but did you know your son was lifting as much as he was, if so why would you not stop him.
Have a good one all
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Post by Brett on Nov 11, 2010 21:55:17 GMT -8
Hey guys,,, Real quick question. What is a good program routine for my teenage son who pitches and also plays the field. He's not playing right now the season is over. Is there ever a time when a teen should be focused on strength rather than explosiveness? Sorry if these are simple questions. Thanks Gamer, Has your son ever lifted before? In response to Wog saying that he would never allow anyone to lift until they are fully mature all I can say is this: If you don't want your son to lift, then you better get comfortable with him being weaker than his competition.
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