gamer
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Posts: 134
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Post by gamer on Nov 15, 2010 11:53:00 GMT -8
Brett, he usually does forearm curls and forearm reverse curls(I guess thats the proper exercise name) however recently he's been doing an exercise called the zotman curl that seems to be doing well.
We have bench some dumbells and a barbell downstairs as well as a cable system with different attatchments. This is where he trains, and when I'm home from work I will go down and supervise him. However, he's been lifting on and off for about two years, when he was first starting off I was always down there with him. Now that I know that he has good form I feel more confident letting him be on his own.
He actually got some information on training from the head strength and conditionin coach for the Bowie Baysox, as well as information from ex-professionals like Eric Milton when he attented a pitching camp over the summer season.
Also, sorry to drag this on, he has never taken a weight training class in high school. He didn't want to be tired from lifting a couple hours before a highschool game. Also he didn't wan't to interfere with a recovering elbow last year so he opted not to take the course this year or last.
Thanks Brett and everyone else who has contributed to this thread.
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Post by cosmo34 on Nov 15, 2010 19:15:26 GMT -8
Training forearms has it's limits. Sure, you can increase your grip strength by training your forearms, given that you have to hold heavy objects to do it. But eventually, you'll reach it's limits.
Forearm curls, reverse forearm curls (I'm assuming these are the done behind the back variation?), Zottman curls, hammers, reverse curls, etc.. are great for getting a huge pump and testing your mental strength. But they really only train grip strength so much. That has to come in from specific grip related exercises.
Forearms are categorized as 'supporting grip' for a reason. That strength helps support the hands and wrists. BUT, it training them won't get your grip up like good ole hardcore grip training will. Farmer's walks, thick bar holds, GREX machine, grippers, towel pull ups; variations are endless. REALLY want some gnarly strong hands? Have to train your crushing and pinch grips. Standard forearm exercises can't hit those like specific grip related exercises can.
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 15, 2010 20:09:49 GMT -8
Wog The nonsense about your older son is running around telling unsuspecting people that weight lifting stopped his growth. But educate yourself. Go ask the expert. As for grip strength. It's funny you mention that. Dr Marshall specifically uses wrist weights because of the blood flow issues with constantly gripping bar bells. I never totally bought that but it looks like your son has some issues there. What specifically are you seeing? I'm not sure what you are asking? Kharma just looking at bar gripping or club gripping or tennis rquet gripping as the culprit possibly in the 3 i mentioned .ptchers elbow would not? when you look at all the gripping the kid has done over the last few months it opens up some questions. his grip strength is improving according to his PT
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 16, 2010 6:41:37 GMT -8
Wog Now I'm really confused. Is your son training to be a baseball pitcher or to open a jar of pickles. Once again, your son went out and pitched baseballs with atrophied muscle fibers. He will be fine. If he wants to lift explain to him the one set to exhaustion rule and he shouldn't hurt himself. I got the impression that Dr Marshall did not like gripping barbells / dumbells because of the concern for cutting off circulation to the hands and fingers. I don't think gripping these objects would hurt the elbow but don't quoted on it. Kharma The good news is that your son seems like a determined young man. I'd say that's a good thing. Kharma i thought you guys might have some info or correlation between over gripping or gripping abuse versus the tendonitis my son has.all the gripping of weight bars and golf clubs may have caused the flare up or rip..they do measure his grip strength at the PT.
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Post by cubsphill on Nov 17, 2010 17:07:53 GMT -8
Training forearms has it's limits. Sure, you can increase your grip strength by training your forearms, given that you have to hold heavy objects to do it. But eventually, you'll reach it's limits. Forearm curls, reverse forearm curls (I'm assuming these are the done behind the back variation?), Zottman curls, hammers, reverse curls, etc.. are great for getting a huge pump and testing your mental strength. But they really only train grip strength so much. That has to come in from specific grip related exercises.
Forearms are categorized as 'supporting grip' for a reason. That strength helps support the hands and wrists. BUT, it training them won't get your grip up like good ole hardcore grip training will. Farmer's walks, thick bar holds, GREX machine, grippers, towel pull ups; variations are endless. REALLY want some gnarly strong hands? Have to train your crushing and pinch grips. Standard forearm exercises can't hit those like specific grip related exercises can. They're for the ladies too. Curls get the girls.
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Post by cosmo34 on Nov 17, 2010 19:36:01 GMT -8
Daddy sees what you did there.
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Post by cubsphill on Nov 18, 2010 9:35:07 GMT -8
It's my go to saying when I'm lifting with the other pitchers and a smart ass freshman asks me what I'm doing curls for.
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 18, 2010 9:44:56 GMT -8
It's my go to saying when I'm lifting with the other pitchers and a smart freshman asks me what I'm doing curls for. why?
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Post by cubsphill on Nov 18, 2010 12:23:21 GMT -8
Because girls love a chiseled physique.
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 19, 2010 5:17:32 GMT -8
And another thing, 'most kids are not mature to lift weights'....ok, what about the ones that do hard labor at young ages? Should they not even pick up rakes anymore? What about the farm boys? Who will save them? They abuse their bodies far more than any weight lifting program will. Do it right and there won't be problems. Shying away in fear is limiting potential. throwing bales of hay and working around the farm cant really be compared to a bunch of teeneagers in a weight room power benching and squatting trying to impress each other..i still say most hs kids are too immature physically to lift weights at least heavy weights ..i'd rather my son be more physically mature before he started lifting,,again every time he wants to pump iron,,,instead throw him two buckets of balls and hit him some grounders..
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 19, 2010 5:22:31 GMT -8
Wog Now I'm really confused. Is your son training to be a baseball pitcher or to open a jar of pickles. Once again, your son went out and pitched baseballs with atrophied muscle fibers. He will be fine. If he wants to lift explain to him the one set to exhaustion rule and he shouldn't hurt himself. I got the impression that Dr Marshall did not like gripping barbells / dumbells because of the concern for cutting off circulation to the hands and fingers. I don't think gripping these objects would hurt the elbow but don't quoted on it. Kharma The good news is that your son seems like a determined young man. I'd say that's a good thing. Kharma biggest culprit accordiing to the pt was too small of grips on his golf clubs thats why i ask about grip abuse and bar bell ........not pickle jars you you you...
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 22, 2010 5:45:48 GMT -8
"grip abuse" LOL. You should go work for ASMI The last answer in this week's letters from Dr Marshall has some good advice for you and the soon to be more forlorn Gamer. Kharma would that be remove the ball from the glove from underneath? ? ahhh it just "kills" you to know its not from pitching..
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gamer
Full Member
Posts: 134
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Post by gamer on Nov 22, 2010 8:24:12 GMT -8
"grip abuse" LOL. You should go work for ASMI The last answer in this week's letters from Dr Marshall has some good advice for you and the soon to be more forlorn Gamer. Kharma Actually I'm not the least bit forlorn. I have my opinions and I'm going to stick to 'em. Those opinions include lifting!
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Post by wogdoggy on Nov 22, 2010 10:50:10 GMT -8
Gamer What kind of lifting is your son doing? How is he going to avoid the dreaded grip abuse? Kharma you know more than the physical therapist who says it comes from gripping..happens in tennis golf and weightlifting ..pt says she sees it all the time..yet kharma cant accept that..sorry kharama it didnt come from pitching abuse..we wont be changing to marshall mechanics anytime soon...
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gamer
Full Member
Posts: 134
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Post by gamer on Nov 22, 2010 12:31:04 GMT -8
Gamer What kind of lifting is your son doing? How is he going to avoid the dreaded grip abuse? Kharma He's benching until it hurts, he's squating until he collapses and sometimes just for fun he does overhead presses until he drops the weights. ;D But I think I allready posted some of the stuff we are doing in an earlier post. If not I will explain later if you really want to know. And finally just drop the grip abuse. No one cares if you don't believe it, no one cares if wog does believe it. Just stop
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